Did Athens take advantage of their power in the Greek world?

Did Athens become too powerful for its own good?

How did conflict lead to the decline of Athens?

What are some advantages and disadvantages of direct democracy?  What makes these advantages and disadvantages?

Which is better our modern indirect democracy or the Athenian direct democracy?

I will not disgrace my sacred arms Nor desert my comrade, wherever I am stationed. I will fight for things sacred And things profane. And both alone and with all to help me. I will transmit my fatherland not diminished But greater and better than before. I will obey the ruling magistrates Who rule reasonably And I will observe the established laws And whatever laws in the future May be reasonably established. If any person seek to overturn the laws, Both alone and with all to help me, I will oppose him. I will honor the religion of my fathers. I call to witness the Gods … The borders of my fatherland, The wheat, the barley, the vines, And the trees of the olive and the fig. What does this oath reveal about Athenian values? How do you think these values affected life in Athens?

Which side do you think is writing each passage? How can you tell? What are some differences between the passages?

“Historians always like to argue that their work is significant. In Herodotus’ case, his claim that the great war between the Greeks and Persians was of unequaled importance (the most important) has been easily confirmed over the last two thousand years.

There was much more at stake during the Persian attempt to conquer the Greek mainland than the simple independence of the Greek states.  As subjects of the Persian king, the Athenian Greeks never would have had the opportunity to develop their unique democratic government. The legacy of democracy passed on to modern Europe and America would have vanished (disappeared). It is likely, had the Greeks been conquered during Xerxes’ invasion, that there never would have been such a thing as Western Civilization at all.

 One event above all, the doomed (fateful) defense of the pass of Thermopylae by a tiny Spartan holding force, is to thank for this. The glory of their end only added to the fame of the battle and helped ensure that Thermopylae, for generations afterwards, would serve as the model (best example) of sacrifice for liberty.” 

Source: British historian Tom Holland. Persian Fire. Published in 2005.

“The prophet Megistias first told the Greeks at Thermopylae that death was coming to them with the dawn. Then retreating Greek soldiers came and announced the approach of the Persian army.

The Greeks then took counsel (had a meeting), but their opinions were divided on what to do. Some wanted to leave their post and retreat, but others led by Leonidas (the Spartan king) spoke against this idea. Eventually most departed, while the Spartans prepared to remain at their post with their king (Leonidas).

It was not proper (the right thing to do) for Leonidas and the Spartans to abandon their post. In truth they were not really there to defend the pass, but to die for the freedom of all. Indeed when the Spartans asked the Oracle about this war when it first started, the Oracle had foretold (made a prophecy) that either the great and glorious cities of Greece would be completely destroyed by Persian men, or Sparta must mourn a dead king.

Considering (thinking about) this prophecy, and wishing to win distinction (fame) for their city, Leonidas and the Spartans did not abandon the post to which Greece had assigned them, but gladly sacrificed their own lives for the common salvation(saving) of all Greeks. There is an inscription written over these men, who were buried where they fell.  It reads simply: “Here three hundred from Sparta once fought two million. May we never forget.”

Source: Herodotus of Halicarnassus, The Histories, 440BCE

What do these quotes tell us about the Spartan soldiers? What caused the Spartans eventual loss at Thermopylae?

Demaratus said, [to the Persian king] "..... these men have come to fight us for possession of the pass, and for that struggle they are preparing. It is the custom of the Spartans to pay careful attention to their hair when they are about to risk their lives..."

just then, a man from Malis, Ephialtes, son of Eurydemus, came, in hope of rich reward, to tell the king about the track which led over the hills to Thermopylae.

It is said that Leonidas himself dismissed them (the other Greek soldiers), to spare their lives, but thought it unbecoming for the Spartans under his command to desert the post which they had originally come to guard.

Debate Teams

If you have any questions about the debate on Monday you can email me at rposch@student.sjcny.edu.

Sparta vs. Athens Debate

On Monday we will have a debate on which polis was greater, Sparta or Athens.  This weekend you will be required to prepare your debate argument.  You must use at least 3 documents from class on Thursday and Friday depending on which group you have been assigned to.  Create a pros and cons argument that will help you to win the debate.  This will be handed in on Monday to be graded.  This argument should be divided into 2 paragraphs one with the pro argument for your polis and the other with the con arguments for your polis.  In your con paragraph you should include how you will counter that point if the other team uses it.  You should try to anticipate what the other side will say and create arguments against these arguments.  You will be graded based on the number of and the validity of your arguments, as well as the number of documents you used and how valid the document is to the argument.

At the beginning of class on Monday you will go straight to your groups and will have five minutes to decide your debate strategy.  In this time yo should think about what you want your opening statement to say as well as who you want to deliver it.  Opening statements can be vey influential so make sure it is well organized and delivered well.  Each side will have an opening statement and will be able to deliver it without being interrupted.  This debate will be a calm mature debate that I will be moderating.  Each side will have the ability to deliver one point followed by an opponents counter-point.

We will have three impartial and anonymous judges who will vote on which side won the debate.  The winning side will be given extra credit.

Athenian DBQ

Again, some people are surprised at the fact that in all fields they give more power to the masses, the poor and the common people than they do the respectable elements of society, but it will become clear that they preserve the democracy by doing precisely this. When the poor, the ordinary people and the lower classes flourish and increase in numbers, then the power of the democracy will be increased.

 What does this document say about Athenian Social Classes?

Out of the clouds comes the mighty force of snow and hail, and thunder arises from the brilliant lightning. But it is from men of great power that a city perishes, and the demos, in its mindlessness, falls into slavery beneath a monarch. It is no easy thing, afterwards, to restrain a man once you have exalted him too high — rather, take all these thoughts to heart now.

 What does this document say about government in Athens?

A good wife should be the mistress of her home, having under her care all that is within it, according to the rules we have laid down. She should allow none to enter without her husband's knowledge, dreading above all things the gossip of gadding women, which tends to poison the soul. She alone should have knowledge of what happens within. She must exercise control of the money spent on such festivities as her husband has approved--- keeping, moreover, within the limit set by law upon expenditure, dress, and ornament---and remembering that beauty depends not on costliness of raiment. Nor does abundance of gold so conduce to the praise of a woman as self-control in all that she does. This, then, is the province over which a woman should be minded to bear an orderly rule; for it seems not fitting that a man should know all that passes within the house. But in all other matters, let it be her aim to obey her husband; giving no heed to public affairs, nor having any part in arranging the marriages of her children. Rather, when the time shall come to give or receive in marriage sons or daughters, let her then hearken to her husband in all respects, and agreeing with him obey his wishes. It is fitting that a woman of a well-ordered life should consider that her husband's wishes are as laws appointed for her by divine will, along with the marriage state and the fortune she shares. If she endures them with patience and gentleness, she will rule her home with ease; otherwise, not so easily. Therefore not only when her husband is in prosperity and good report must she be in agreement with him, and to render him the service he wills, but also in times of adversity. If, through sickness or fault of judgment, his good fortune fails, then must she show her quality, encouraging him ever with words of cheer and yielding him obedience in all fitting ways---only let her do nothing base or unworthy. Let her refrain from all complaint, nor charge him with the wrong, but rather attribute everything of this kind to sickness or ignorance or accidental errors. Therefore, she will serve him more assiduously than if she had been a slave bought and taken home. For he has indeed bought her with a great price--with partnership in his life and in the procreation of children....

 What does this document say about Athenian women?

Not only was the constitution at this time oligarchical in every respect, but the poorer classes---men, women, and children---were in absolute slavery to the rich. They were known as pelatai and also as hectemori, because they cultivated the lands of the rich for a sixth part of the produce. The whole country was in the hands of a few persons, and if the tenants failed to pay their rent, they were liable to be haled into debt-slavery and their children with them. Their persons were mortgaged to their creditors, a custom which prevailed until the time of Solon, who was the first to appear as a leader of the people. But the hardest and bitterest part of the condition of the masses was the fact that they had no share in the offices then existing under the constitution. At the same time they were discontented with every other feature of their lot; for, to speak generally, they had no part nor share in anything.

 What does this document tell us about living in Athens at the time?

Among the many innovations made by Lykourgos the first, and the greatest, was his establishment of the gerousia; a council of twenty-eight older Spartan men from noble families. These men, according to Plato, when mixed with the “feverish” rule of the two kings, used their ability to vote on matters of great importance to create a government which was both sensible and secure.

1. What does this document tell us about the governing body of Sparta?







[Lykourgos] persuaded all the people of Sparta to pool all of their lands together and divide it out anew: they were to live with each other, one and all, as equals, with plots of the same size ensuring that they could get the things they needed to have to survive, with their wish to be better than all of their neighbors expressing itself in the pursuit of excellence – the idea being that between one man and another there is no difference or inequality other than they way in which they are treated depending on whether or not they choose to do good things or bad things.

1. What does this document tell us about life in Sparta?






Nor was it in the power of the father to dispose of the child as he thought fit; he was obliged to carry it before certain triers at a place called Lesche; these were some of the elders of the tribe to which the child belonged; their business it was carefully to view the infant, and, if they found it stout and well made, they gave order for its rearing, and allotted to it one of the nine thousand shares of land above mentioned for its maintenance, but, if they found it puny and ill-shaped, ordered it to be taken to what was called the Apothetae, a sort of chasm under Taygetus; as thinking it neither for the good of the child itself, nor for the public interest, that it should be brought up, if it did not, from the very outset, appear made to be healthy and vigorous.

1. What does this document tell us about what the Spartans did to newborn infants?







…but as soon as they were seven years old they were to be enrolled in certain companies and classes; where they all lived under the same order and discipline, doing their exercises and taking their play together. Of these, he who showed the most conduct and courage was made captain; they had their eyes always upon him, obeyed his orders, and underwent patiently whatsoever punishment he inflicted; so that the whole course of their education was one of continued exercise of a ready and perfect obedience…Reading and writing they gave them just enough to serve their turn; their chief care was to make them good subjects, and reach them to endure pain and conquer in battle.

1. What does this document tell us about the training of children in Sparta?

Sparta Powerpoint

" Every man may make up his mind to fight
  And move on his enemy! Strong as I am,
  It's hard for me to face so many men
And fight with all at once. . .
And yet I will!"
-Homer Illiad

What does this tell us about Greek culture?

What does it mean if a computer gets a Trojan Horses, what do you think it means?  What does this tell us about the influence of Greek civilization on society today?

Where can you see the influence of Ancient Greek Culture on our modern society?  

Why would the Greeks be so upset that in the legend the Trojans stole Helen from them? 

Aegean People Power Point